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Re: What does the Government think it is doing to education?
Quote:
Originally Posted by pelinor
As I say, I would never say getting a degree is a waste of time, but how many degrees are wasted?
What would you call a wasted degree? Do you mean that someone gets a job in an industry/field where the degree is not relevant?
If so, I have to ask, how many people did apprenticeships and then got jobs in different fields? How many people did 3 - 4 years training in jobs and then end up doing different work?
I would also say that from a life experience point of view there has to be no such thing as a wasted degree?
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Re: What does the Government think it is doing to education?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopper
I would also say that from a life experience point of view there has to be no such thing as a wasted degree?
I've been in lectures where half the students who actually turned up for the lecture spent their time texting each other, or reading girly mags or some crap tabloid. I've seen lecture notes taken where it is obvious that no brain cells are involved. I've been sitting outside a lecture theatre having discovered the lecture was cancelled, and heard "F*cking hell, I drag myself out of f*cking bed and down here to find there's no f*cking lecture". This from an 18-year old girl, and a lecture missed at 1.00 in the afternoon!! The only topic of student conversation I ever heard was who did what to whom the previous evening. Life experience, yes, but they could do this during a useful apprenticeship, without clocking up a huge student loan by drinking vast amounts of booze. Getting a Sunday paper used to be difficult and revolting, having to step carefully round the pools of vomit all up the street, the results of Students' Saturday evening 'life experiences'.
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Re: What does the Government think it is doing to education?
Granted, however, most of the graduates I have come across (and I have far less experience than you have in this matter) seem to have gained so much out of the University experience and I'm not just talking about learning how to drink for England.
They have grown up so much in their time away, many have learned how to look after themselves for the first time, how to balance budgets and how to think for themselves, now I'm not saying that this might not have happened at home but living on their own made such a difference to them.
Re: What does the Government think it is doing to education?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopper
What would you call a wasted degree? Do you mean that someone gets a job in an industry/field where the degree is not relevant?
If so, I have to ask, how many people did apprenticeships and then got jobs in different fields? How many people did 3 - 4 years training in jobs and then end up doing different work?
I would also say that from a life experience point of view there has to be no such thing as a wasted degree?
Yes. But it's the amount of possibly wasted degrees that trouble me. The more people that have them the more are going to be wasted.
What is an apprentice? Do they still have them? As I understood apprenticeships, they actually worked earning a wage as well as going to collage.
As for training in jobs. Well, they are training whilst working and getting paid. Both the latter are contributing to the country in tax.
I appreciate I am treading on dangerous ground and have no wish to upset any one but it seems to me that getting a degree to some is slightly better than being on the dole. That does not take away the hard work done by many worthwhile students that get degrees.
What one needed a 1st for 15years ago one now needs a PHD today!
Re: What does the Government think it is doing to education?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopper
Granted, however, most of the graduates I have come across (and I have far less experience than you have in this matter) seem to have gained so much out of the University experience and I'm not just talking about learning how to drink for England.
They have grown up so much in their time away, many have learned how to look after themselves for the first time, how to balance budgets and how to think for themselves, now I'm not saying that this might not have happened at home but living on their own made such a difference to them.
That's what I meant by life experiences.
I agree, of course. How could I not. And yet I would argue first that these sorts of skills should be something our education system provides to all, not just university entrants, and second, that the point of university is to give higher education in a specialist subject by those who are actively engaged in its research.
Re: What does the Government think it is doing to education?
Quote:
Originally Posted by pelinor
Yes. But it's the amount of possibly wasted degrees that trouble me. The more people that have them the more are going to be wasted.
What is an apprentice? Do they still have them? As I understood apprenticeships, they actually worked earning a wage as well as going to collage.
As for training in jobs. Well, they are training whilst working and getting paid. Both the latter are contributing to the country in tax.
I appreciate I am treading on dangerous ground and have no wish to upset any one but it seems to me that getting a degree to some is slightly better than being on the dole. That does not take away the hard work done by many worthwhile students that get degrees.
What one needed a 1st for 15years ago one now needs a PHD today!
What is needed are manufacturing facilities so people are gainfully employed; you can't run an economy based on financial services.
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Re: What does the Government think it is doing to education?
I entirely agree with much of the sentiment offered in this thread.
While I’m sure many will accuse me of being an academically retarded dinosaur, you have only to look back at the grammar school/ secondary modern school system to perhaps glean an insight into what has gone wrong with the British education system.
In order to get into a grammar school you had to sit an entry exam, which, I believe, was set with the intention of selecting the academically brightest 20 per cent of the school population.
The same 20 per cent who were destined to go on to university and become the next generation in the “Professions”, doctors, lawyers, teachers, etc.
The other 80 per cent went on to secondary modern schools where, in many cases, their education, although hopefully still rounded, was slanted toward careers where a degree was unnecessary.
It was not thought that builders, welders, engineers, nurses, fishermen, carpenters, etc. required a university degree.
Therefore, it would seem to naturally follow that around 20 per cent of the population have the right attributes required to undertake the rigours of a university education.
Then along came political correctness in the 60s and it was decided that nobody was allowed to fail, (poor dears) in case they became upset.
The result has been that like the old GCE, (renamed GCSE); the university degree has become devalued.
The crux of this discussion therefore should be; what is the point, or indeed advantage, of having a qualification which everyone else has?
Surely, the only value of any qualification, academic or otherwise, is that it sets the holder apart from his, or her, peers.
For example, (God forbid), affording them an advantage when applying for a job, as the prospective employer can measure the holder against the rest.
Lastly, as I understand it, degrees, like “O” and “A” levels, are marked down as far as an “F”.
Yet having received an “F” one can still boast of having an “O” or “A” level, or it seems, a University degree.
Surely, anything above 50 per cent is a pass and anything below 50 per cent is a failure, (perhaps that is what the “F” secretly stands for).
But that is not common knowledge because we don’t want to upset the poor dears do we?
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Re: What does the Government think it is doing to education?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Pan
I entirely agree with much of the sentiment offered in this thread.
While I’m sure many will accuse me of being an academically retarded dinosaur, you have only to look back at the grammar school/ secondary modern school system to perhaps glean an insight into what has gone wrong with the British education system.
In order to get into a grammar school you had to sit an entry exam, which, I believe, was set with the intention of selecting the academically brightest 20 per cent of the school population.
The same 20 per cent who were destined to go on to university and become the next generation in the “Professions”, doctors, lawyers, teachers, etc.
The other 80 per cent went on to secondary modern schools where, in many cases, their education, although hopefully still rounded, was slanted toward careers where a degree was unnecessary. It was not thought that builders, welders, engineers, nurses, fishermen, carpenters, etc. required a university degree.
Therefore, it would seem to naturally follow that around 20 per cent of the population have the right attributes required to undertake the rigours of a university education.
Then along came political correctness in the 60s and it was decided that nobody was allowed to fail, (poor dears) in case they became upset.
The result has been that like the old GCE, (renamed GCSE); the university degree has become devalued.
The crux of this discussion therefore should be; what is the point, or indeed advantage, of having a qualification which everyone else has?
Surely, the only value of any qualification, academic or otherwise, is that it sets the holder apart from his, or her, peers.
For example, (God forbid), affording them an advantage when applying for a job, as the prospective employer can measure the holder against the rest.
Lastly, as I understand it, degrees, like “O” and “A” levels, are marked down as far as an “F”.
Yet having received an “F” one can still boast of having an “O” or “A” level, or it seems, a University degree.
Surely, anything above 50 per cent is a pass and anything below 50 per cent is a failure, (perhaps that is what the “F” secretly stands for).
But that is not common knowledge because we don’t want to upset the poor dears do we?
I think a lot of Engineers will disagree with you. I haven’t seen many Lawyers or Doctors designing aircraft, bridges or vehicles.
Re: What does the Government think it is doing to education? 
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