What does the Government think it is doing to education?

Janet · 08-02-10, 12:35

What is this Government doing to education? The number of students wanting to go to university in the UK this year has risen by more than 20%, but University funding bods say there'll be 6,000 fewer places this year than last.

The chairman of the Russell Group of elite institutions, Professor Michael Arthur, vice-chancellor of the University of Leeds, has said the cuts are devastating, and that budgets will be cut by a further 6% in each of the next three years.

Measures to save money include closing departments, sometimes even closing entire campuses, and using post-graduate students to lecture instead of academic staff.

Where does this leave our A-level students now? More of them will be applying for fewer places, but if they don't get the degrees, what are their job or career chances? And if they actually get a place, what sort of education will they get if they're unable to be taught by other than those who are still students themselves?

Full stories in the BBC and the Guardian.

Briz · 08-02-10, 12:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janet

What is this Government doing to education? The number of students wanting to go to university in the UK this year has risen by more than 20%, but University funding bods say there'll be 6,000 fewer places this year than last.

The chairman of the Russell Group of elite institutions, Professor Michael Arthur, vice-chancellor of the University of Leeds, has said the cuts are devastating, and that budgets will be cut by a further 6% in each of the next three years.

Measures to save money include closing departments, sometimes even closing entire campuses, and using post-graduate students to lecture instead of academic staff.

Where does this leave our A-level students now? More of them will be applying for fewer places, but if they don't get the degrees, what are their job or career chances? And if they actually get a place, what sort of education will they get if they're unable to be taught by other than those who are still students themselves?

Full stories in the BBC and the Guardian.

Perhaps we could just have the brighter ones go.

pelinor · 08-02-10, 13:07

Maybe we'll go back to the days when a degree was somthing special and not common place?

Marion · 08-02-10, 13:09

They'll soon be asking for a degree to work on the checkout of a supermarket.

Janet · 08-02-10, 13:16

This is the trouble. It's difficult to go back, now, with all the last decade's graduates in the job market to compete with those who might otherwise choose not to get a degree.

I completely agree about a BA being commonplace, though. It became something that we had to award unless the student effectively disqualified him/herself ... which is why I'm no longer in the job!

Periklês · 08-02-10, 13:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marion

They'll soon be asking for a degree to work on the checkout of a supermarket.

Too late - I thought the checkouts were going to be machines, designed by software engineers with degrees.

Perhaps they will award degrees to the machines.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pelinor

Maybe we'll go back to the days when a degree was somthing special and not common place?

Successive governments are to be blamed for an absurd an untenable rise in the number of degrees available. At a time when everybody knew that only about 10% of jobs were actually knowledge based and required a degree, they systematically increased the numbers in universities to about 30% of school leavers. This has resulted in many students having worthless degrees, no job prospects, and a large student debt.

As a little demonstration of how stupid things had become, 5 years ago Leeds university was offering degree courses in physics for students with no maths qualification at all. There are precious few jobs for physicists anyway, so why bother?

pelinor · 08-02-10, 13:47

I know I have said it before but I have worked along side people with degrees. I started work at the age of 15. The degree people went on to 7 or 8? more years of education. But we ended up at the same place, earning the same money with exactly the same prospects in the job.

macbee48 · 08-02-10, 20:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by pelinor

I know I have said it before but I have worked along side people with degrees. I started work at the age of 15. The degree people went on to 7 or 8? more years of education. But we ended up at the same place, earning the same money with exactly the same prospects in the job.

So are you saying that in a lot of cases at least, a degree is a waste of time?

Periklês · 08-02-10, 20:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by macbee48

So are you saying that in a lot of cases at least, a degree is a waste of time?

I would say that, yes, having been a mature student and seen the students studying with me. It depends largely on the class of the degree. Those with first class or good second class degrees possibly have a good qualification. Because there is no weeding out at the end of the first year of a degree course, once someone has got into university, they are almost bound to get a degree of some kind. Without wanting to generalize too much, with many exceptions, these days an ordinary degree of a third class honours degree could be seen as a certificate of incompetence. It would be better not to have the degree than a very poor one. Without a degree, your level of incompetence is unknown.

pelinor · 08-02-10, 20:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by macbee48

So are you saying that in a lot of cases at least, a degree is a waste of time?

Well I would never say there a waste of time. But I think one has to be realistic about ones employment prospects after getting a degree. Which at the end of the day is the reason for getting a degree in the first place?
As I say, I would never say getting a degree is a waste of time, but how many degrees are wasted?